So I am selling off some of my samples that I produced for my website. These are designs that I have came up with to sell as regular use lines which I want to reproduce for customers.
The whole website thing and sales is all really new for me as I have mainly only done custom work and therefore this issue has really never arisen before.
I have been asked this by a potential customer.

"Are the rights to the character a part of the sale? If I wanted to use him for something like a webseries would I be able to use his image, etc in any way I want?
I'm just considering what uses I could have with the puppet and want to make sure I'm covered"

Just so it's clear this puppet is up for auction with a crazy cheap starting price just to get them out of my workshop. In start contrast to my normal RRP and also previous custom work.
Do any of you experienced puppet builders have any advise on how to handle the rights of your designs and also the rights of puppets you wish to recreate time after time perhaps with some small changes the client prefers etc.

Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated [/i]

help!

My first piece of advice: we're not lawyers. Copyrights are best answered by a lawyer.

My second piece of advice: Australian information about copyrights. http://copyright.com.au/get-information
http://www.artslaw.com.au/
The second site has a free advice service if you meet their standards (usually artists on a low income). They also have other resources on their website.

Third piece of advice: copyrights are complicated, and basically it depends on how you want to do it. I personally don't worry about performance rights - because it's too hard to monitor and collect royalties for performances overseas for instance - but do worry about design copyrights. This is for stuff that I sell on a regular basis. For everything that is commissioned I hand over performance and design copyrights to the person who commissioned it.

Whatever you do, just make sure you're very clear about it and as much as possible ensure that the other person knows what it is they're buying.

I have known people to put in their policies that non-profit activities with their purchased puppet is royalty-free, but that if something is going to be used as for-profit (ie. tv series, whatever) then a royalty must be paid.

As I said... it's up to you.

Oh... - thing is, you have to be careful too. Because using the puppet in a web series is utterly different to them taking the character design, turning it into a graphic design and then selling t-shirts with the character on it. It can get pretty complicated very quickly if you start adding in more people with part ownership of some of the design, whether you originated it or not.

In such a case, it might be best to go all or nothing rather than try to say "this is ok, but this isn't". So in the above, it may be easier if you said "my character is mine, don't use it without my permission" than to go "ok, you can make money by selling t-shirts with the character on it, but you can't make toy merchandise out of it".

thanks for the Reply Na, Because this is all in its infancy I really dont want to have lawyer fees on top of start up expenses. My first thought was to allow use of puppet in their shows etc and on their own advertising material (for the show) ie posters with photograph images of my character with credit given but no way reproducing a likeness of the character in any other media without permission or royalties paid.
I really dont want to be harsh as to turn people away from my puppets but in the same breath I dont want my designs to be used and abused so to speak.   This is just so hard! Arrgghh!

My first piece of advice: we're not lawyers. Copyrights are best answered by a lawyer.

I'll second that. So take what I say with a grain of salt.

While Creative Commons is thought of being for web content, I think it may help you figure out some of the language you want to use. http://creativecommons.org/ Also here is how Axtell handles the question. http://www.axtell.com/rights.html They really do keep it pretty simple.

What I do think is important is to make sure that you can prove that you designed and created a character and when you did it. With out that if someone down the line comes to you and tries to take you to court saying you stole the design from them you have something you can fight back with. It used to be the poor mans copyright was to mail themselves designs and then not open the package so the postmark was intact. Not sure if that would hold up on court or not. Better to figure out way to publicly document your creations.  Something like posting about them on FB may be helpful simply because then you would be able to say in court "Look on (insert date) I posted pictures and details about this puppet."  I think perhaps posting on your site itself is advantages also as long as you have a way to prove when it was posted.

Quite frankly I personally do not put to much thought into this anymore. What I do try an concentrate on is making enough money on something when I do create it. My personal opinion is that if someone can take what I created and create something more out of it more power to them. I don't feel they owe me anything else other then what I asked them to pay me at first. I may have given a good solid base but it is there hard work and development of that character that has made it a success.  Now I am talking individual custom work here just like what Na said above when she does commission work.

Hmmm.... I think I just said what Na said.

My first thought was to allow use of puppet in their shows etc and on their own advertising material (for the show) ie posters with photograph images of my character with credit given but no way reproducing a likeness of the character in any other media without permission or royalties paid.

As someone who is working on their own webseries with a puppet, if I was in your potential buyers position I would say no to this and you could lose a buyer. Part of the reason why they might be after unlimited rights is to make sure they have something unique, that they can use in advertising and that isn't seen elsewhere. When I read the above quote I thought if you still own the copyright to the puppet design, it implies that you can make and sell identical or similar style puppets which would make the puppet in question less unique and may have adverse consequences on the webseries.

That being said, it's your puppet and only you can decide what rights make sense to give away. My suggestion would be to offer them for example $10 and give them non-exclusive rights to the puppet (meaning that they can use it for whatever they want but you still have the right to build another identical puppet to sell for the to other for the same person), or suggest that they can buy it for more, $50 for example, where you give them exclusive rights (only they can use the puppet). Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting selling the puppet for $10, it's just an example, fill in your own numbers there.

Talking about exclusive and non-exclusive rights, you can actually give exclusive rights to the puppet to someone without giving away copyright. It does mean that you can't sell an identical or similar puppet to anyone else however, but it means if they want another they have to come to you. The great thing about exclusive rights is that you can also state your terms, meaning that you can their rights to use it in their webseries will expire after a set amount of years, or only if the finished product is being distributed in the USA, etc., but I don't think either of those restrictions would be attractive to your potential buyer.

Come to think about it this might have been what you were trying to get at in your post. Maybe you just used the wrong wording.

Disclaimer: As above, we're not lawyers, and my reply in no way should be considered legal advice. Rely on your own research or proper legal advice.

thanks for the Reply Na, Because this is all in its infancy I really dont want to have lawyer fees on top of start up expenses. My first thought was to allow use of puppet in their shows etc and on their own advertising material (for the show) ie posters with photograph images of my character with credit given but no way reproducing a likeness of the character in any other media without permission or royalties paid.
I really dont want to be harsh as to turn people away from my puppets but in the same breath I dont want my designs to be used and abused so to speak.   This is just so hard! Arrgghh!

I've probably spent more time in the past couple of years worrying about copyrights here than most: I discovered a lot of my articles and photos used without permission. I spent a lot of time chasing plagiarists, sending take-down notices, etc. In the end, all I did was make myself more work and more frustration than it was worth. I do still monitor my stuff but not as aggressively as before.

Basically when it comes to selling puppets though I don't worry about what the other people do with it. Even if it makes them money. I do worry about people re-creating my puppet outright though, which I've seen done at least once via Flickr. However, I can't do much about it and it would take me way too much time (and lawyers probably) to bother trying so while I've tried getting in contact with the people, they haven't responded and I've left it like that. Policing this stuff takes too much time that can be better spent actually earning money instead of chasing infringers who definitely won't pay - pirates are people who stole it, what makes you think if pushed they'll end up fixing the problem?

The issue is: if and when someone does recreate your work in some way, will you be able to contest it? This is what I mean by getting more people involved. If you have photos taken of the puppet to put on the poster, technically the photo copyrights belong to the photographer. So now, if you end up disputing the use of the photos, for whatever reason... then the dispute becomes less about the character copyrights and more about who owns the rights to the photos. (Hope that makes sense) Like I said, it may not be worth it when the rights get all complicated like that.

Are you actually going to have a written contract? Because all the discussion in the world is useless if you don't have written confirmation that you and them are agreeing to whatever you decide to do. It's one of the reasons why I posted those 2 links, because at least one of them will have a sample contract for downloading. Whatever you write, it has to cover all the clauses so it's yet another reason to find a free/cheap lawyer service. Shawn's suggestion to have proof of originality is useful too. I think I agree with him about just making sure you get paid enough in the first instance.

The bigger question to be asked: if you are so attached to the copyrights, then is there really any point in selling the puppet at all? You can say no after all, or offer to make them something else that you're not going to be attached to. If you're really worried about losing customers over reasonable requests about copyrights and royalties, then in my opinion, that customer is not worth your time. In my experience the customers who refuse reasonable requests are the ones who want something for nothing and don't make good repeat customers, and would rather get a deal than respect the people whose work they need. Yes, negotiation is part of what a good customer will do too - but good customers don't try and scam you out of a profit.

The more you sell, the more comfortable you will be about where the line in the sand is for you and get to know what your own personal issues are when it comes to dealing with customers. For me, I get a lot of enquiries but very little commitment once a price comes up. After a while I've learned just to say no - despite my head saying "but, it's a job!"

- One other thing and that is that if we're talking about copyrights you really do need to be aware of the differences between Australian and international issues. Some recommendations from Americans or others might not apply to local laws.

This is a good a place as any to go read about the way Freddy Mercury talked about his work: he treated it as a commodity, something that can be re-used and re-mixed, because he could always go and make more music

Thanks Na, I do agree with a lot of what you have said. All your thoughts have given me a lot to thing about. Appreciate your time spent sharing with me your opinions. Ill table all my thoughts and see what I come up with
Thankyou also to Shawn for giving me your thoughts also.
Cheers

No problems. I happen to spend a lot of time reading stuff about web/graphic design, and issues of copyrights, contracts, payments, etc come up a lot. If you have the time, I recommend googling for some more ideas and thoughts because there's a lot of people out there with the same questions and problems.
 

For me, I get a lot of enquiries but very little commitment once a price comes up. After a while I've learned just to say no - despite my head saying "but, it's a job!"

In my haste I have not posted something clearer. My point was that I've taught myself to turn down work when there is less value in it for me. The temptation is there to accept any job, every job, despite the profit margin - "it'll be good experience", "it's with a well-known person/organisation", "it'll give me exposure". At the end of the day, you exchange money for experience/marketability/whatever. But more importantly, you also often exchange the benefit for far worse things: clients who won't/can't communicate well, deadlines or quality that isn't achievable, more time put in than you'll get paid for, etc.

In the end, I guess I have a copyright policy that is dependent on the expectation that my time is worth something, and can be better spent not stressing myself out over who is doing what and how to police it 24/7 with international customers.

The thing I've read the most when it comes to people costing out their work: they underestimate *time* more than anything else.

I'm quite a bit jaded at this point, so all my comments should be taken with a grain of salt.

Worth reading, my article on commissions:
http://www.schoolofpuppetry.com.au/tutorials.php/how-to-commission-a-puppet-maker?tempskin=2013tutorials
Or this on the balance of cost, quality, and time:
http://colinharman.com/how-would-you-like-your-graphic-design/